Narrator (00:00:07) - Welcome back to Bringing Your Ideas to Life, the podcast from Accenture, where we discussed the strategy, training and networks that drive innovation across the globe. This time, Oxentia's CEO Steve Cleverley interviews Alex McPherson, founder of Ignition Law The Legal Practice, specializing in advising entrepreneurs start up and scale up businesses during their growth journeys. Over two episodes, you'll hear about Alex's own journey in establishing and growing ignition law, including the decisions and evolution of its purpose and approach as it progresses towards B Corp certification. Through this lens, Alex and Steve explore not only the legal advice that startup and scale up businesses require, but how the culture and values driving a business as it grows inform the structure and decisions that its leaders have to make. Alex and Steve dig deeper into the common phases of growth for a young business, exploring how people and practices inform the amount of tailored advice that is 
required. So if you're involved in growing a business yourself, there should be plenty to listen to. And we welcome your questions and feedback.

Steve Cleverley (00:01:07) - More on that at the end of the episode. But for now, please enjoy. Well, hello, everybody.

Alex McPherson (00:01:14) - I'm Steve Cleverley, CEO of Oxentia. I'm delighted to be joined this afternoon by Alex McPherson. I've worked with Alex for a number of years, and Alex played a critical role, an invaluable role actually, in helping with the establishment of Oxentia back in 2017. So welcome, Alex. And maybe you could tell us a little bit about the Ignition Law story. Thanks, Steve, and thanks very much for having me. So I'm Alex MacPherson. I'm. I was at Oxford many years ago, about 20 odd years ago, and then started off doing corporate law in the city at Freshfields and Hogan Lovells. And eight years ago, we set up ignition law with a view to solely working with start up scale ups and entrepreneurs in their in their scale up journey and perhaps some of the things that they they needed from from legal advice and benefited from a firm that was solely set up to to focus on that on that on that niche.

Alex McPherson (00:02:12) - And we've we've grown a fair bit to about 80, 85 of us over the last eight years around about 6 million revenue and careful growth targets year in, year out. We're very much a values led business now. We're most of the way towards becoming a B Corp and have a three quarters female senior leadership team, which for law firms is is is quite important, quite progressive. I'm a dad of two, two little girls, seven and nine, and that's very much a big part of our ethos as a business as well and being a responsible member of the community. That's that's me in a nutshell. Excellent. Thank you. And where did everything start? What gave you the the purpose to to establish ignition law? Well, I always known that I wanted to do law since I was probably about 1718. Consider being a pilot, but wasn't any good at maths. And so my parents suggested laws are good. A good a good bet. But I genuinely knew I wanted to be a lawyer of some shape or form, wasn't really sure what what area.

Alex McPherson (00:03:22) - And so I looked at criminal firms. Family law did a fair bit of legal secretarial work experience where I'm from on the south coast and then as time time moved on, started to think more about a training contract in London and and was offered one at Freshfields, one of the large corporate firms. And then after that moved to Hogan. Lovells had a real love of corporate law. So sort of, if you like, Jack of all trades building things and growing companies, and then got more and more interested in smaller businesses where you can perhaps make a little bit more of a difference and and have more of an impact on on on businesses. So I got involved in 1 or 2 of my own one working with students that were like myself from state schools and applying to universities, going through interview processes, taking students from the first year and connecting them up with applicants to kind of help them through guidance on this professor might interview in this way or that way. And that felt very 
different to professional advice. It felt a little bit more more personal.

Alex McPherson (00:04:35) - And so that sort of gave a bit of a germ of an idea of actually how how hard is it to set up a law firm and to kind of focus on that niche? And the answer is very hard and about an inch of hairline over eight years. But but, but, but, but hugely rewarding as well. It must be very different working for yourself in law that then Hogan Hogan level. Yeah, it is. I mean, we're very, very close to Hogan and I was there two weeks ago for alumni drinks and. And they're very much a part of the ecosystem. You know, clients grow and naturally necessarily at some point outgrow us and need different services. But it's very different. You know, it's it's perhaps it's perhaps a case that your your practice is broader. So you're most of our clients wouldn't really expect you to pass around departments of department as it were. But at the same time I'd say it's it's perhaps slightly more it's very empowering in the sense that you're able to set a boundary and say, look, you really definitely need 
some tax advice for this or this is this has gone beyond basic employment knowledge and really needs a specialist now.

Alex McPherson (00:05:47) - So it's quite it's quite empowering in that sense. It's always the case that the client, quite rightly is is in charge and there's a regulated relationship where there's all manner of confidentiality and legal privilege and obligations, but it feels a little bit more like you're in the room and slightly more on the level in terms of in terms of how you can advise and add value for clients in a more direct, which is good and bad. That's interesting. I think we experience quite a lot of that as a as an SME operating in the professional services field, although in a very different area. It's that, as you say, it's quite empowering. It's the ability to to work with clients, how you want to work with them and to add value where you feel you can. I think that's right. And I think in the ecosystem, which most certainly feeds up to to larger firms and larger investors and things, and there's there's a real sense of serendipity and that's that's something that never gets lost on me. We were out with an old friend our head of dispute resolution I out two weeks ago for lunch with a good friend He's moved to a very prestigious London firm as a litigator.

Alex McPherson (00:07:02) - And we were talking about a fellow lawyer and what she was up to. And it turned out she was sat at the next table we bumped into on the way out. It's one of those things, actually, the the ecosystem certainly here in Oxford and most certainly in London, it's it's it's smaller than one thinks, you know, and reputation goes a long way. Absolutely. Absolutely. And as I often say, you're only as good as your last your last client engagement. Totally. Absolutely. No, I think I think we focus a lot on all here is is the easiest form of business development for us is to keep our existing customers as happy as we can and trying to deliver excellence every time. Yeah, absolutely right. Yeah. So what was he? The establishment and the growth of Ignition Law has required a leadership team. So what are the challenges facing leadership teams in companies when it start to scale up? I think it's a great question, Steve, and I would imagine it's probably a bit like Oxentia in the sense that 
certainly for me, I'd say it was probably three paradigm shifts.

Alex McPherson (00:08:03) - I'd say there's a the first phase is, is is adrenaline based, and there's a great book called Be More Pirate, where it talks about this swashbuckling phase where you're you're in that 99% chance of 99% of business in the UK don't get to a million turnover, which sounds like a nice number, but actually there's an awful lot of things that are that need sorting out even at that early stage level. So I think there's the first stage of things such as a senior leadership team and even strategy needing to still come good in terms of actual delivery of PNL and reinvesting gross gross profit. So there was definitely that phase, which I'd say was we set up January the 1st, 2015, and I would say by about October, November, I was slightly starting to keel over from two AGMs and not in any way being the best version of my myself. And, and and I think that was phase one, which is almost survival really great fun as well. But but, but pretty, pretty exhausting. Phase two was a little bit more and I should say phase one, we joint venture with law firm Gunner Cook.

Alex McPherson (00:09:21) - So that helped hugely with a lot of the back office functionality and we locked in and we're always going to eventually spin out and stand on our own two feet in terms of the back office and, and operations and support. Phase two was probably more what sometimes called the Gazelle business, where it looks good, it looks adolescent, nearly an adult on its own two feet. But but actually often you'd have a great year or great quarter. And then then something would blow up and there'd be a challenge and you have a wobble. And that, I'd say, lasted really until 2019, 2020, something like that as it was scaling. And, and then there was. Quite a shift in terms of strategy and leadership and thinking also about values and and start with very values led business. And that was important that in about three, three years ago, almost to the day, we were putting in place a senior leadership team and and starting to have a real sense of strategy and growth and and credit control approach in a law firm which is which is which is really important.

Alex McPherson (00:10:37) - And so that was a really key paradigm shift. And and that probably takes us really to where we are today in terms of there being always challenges and things to improve and help and support with the senior leadership team. But actually fundamentally having that backbone behind the firm is is huge. So probably the three key phases, I would say. Oh, interesting, Interesting. And I guess similar to similar to ourselves, we're very values driven, but it's having that shared sense of purpose and having a shared vision which is communicated and understood by everybody in the organisation. You know, we want everybody rowing in and heading in the same direction anyways. Yeah, totally. And I think culture, culture and values can often sound woolly and they often in some organisations perhaps can be woolly. And I think Oxentia much, much like us, it's actually when it's clear and it's it's crystallized as it is, you know, meeting the team and seeing everyone that's massive. And a very good 
friend who was very senior at Dr. Martin said said to me through lockdown, where they were a rare retail business that was doing incredibly well.

Alex McPherson (00:11:47) - She said, If you get it right, culture eats strategy for breakfast. You know, actually you close the door and sit in an office. And actually the the culture polices itself. And if that's values led, you can be pretty sure that if there's an outlier or a challenge or behaviour that's not ethically aligned, it will almost self-police to a large extent, especially if people are empowered to, you know, and clear on the values. Yeah, no, it's a very good point. And certainly what we find here in professional services is we're people led business people are our most valuable asset that we have is wisdom for the people. We wouldn't have a business. Exactly. Okay. Can you identify the key decision points for growing businesses where they need legal advice? I'd say there's I'd say it turns hugely on on your last point is the business in question a more of a people business where perhaps the fundamental value of the business is is different, say to a technology led business where it can 
hockey stick and grow in a very different direction.

Alex McPherson (00:12:59) - The legal advice perhaps varies accordingly. So perhaps more of a people led business elements around culture staff handbook, the tightness of contracts, intellectual property ownership, all these sorts of things are slightly nuanced vis a vis the more of a technology led business. But I think the key milestones for for legal advice are probably a phase one of bootstrapping that that swashbuckling phase of being in that statistically, probably unfortunately being in that 99% of businesses that may not make it to a million turnover may not make it because they're perfectly adequate, not scaling. But there's that first stage of everything being extremely lean and and a need to bootstrap and be really prudent with legal spend and indeed be strategic about where not to spend money and how to kind of kick a few cans down the road. I'd say the next strategic area is is often either around a funding round series, A, Series B and more of a scale up business or indeed more perhaps turnover based in a people business where one is starting to go through a series of learning points lessons.

Alex McPherson (00:14:20) - So probably a rite of passage that you may or may not recall from your journey could be things such as the first time one has to let somebody go. And that's actually really, really hard, really emotionally hard for both both parties. And one is often making quite a lot of mistakes at that stage and being quite hard on on oneself. I think in a in a scale up business through to challenges with investors, challenges with cash flow, there are normally these sorts of trigger points, first disputes with a key B2B contract or or outsourced service that these sorts of things normally come up and hopefully only come up once for an entrepreneur because you learn lessons and you improve things off the. Back of them, whether that's with legal advice or whether that's making use of legal stairs. But I'd say there's probably that early stage, early stage sandbox area, if you like, where it's about survival and then it's about scale up and lessons and hopefully issues and challenges coming up 
once and then being improved from there.

Narrator (00:15:29) - Thank you for listening to part one of this discussion with Alex McPherson and Steve Cleverley.

Narrator (00:15:33) - Join us for Part two, where we'll discuss more about the timing and types of legal support that startup and scale ups typically require an Ignition Law's B Corp certification journey plus some of the common pitfalls to avoid during scaling up of your business. If you have any questions about this or any other episodes of bringing new ideas to life, then please do contact us at Ideas Pod. And that's Ideas Pod or one word ad essential and we'll get back to you as soon as we can. Thank you very much. Bye for now.